BRETT KOHLHAGEN: You grew up at Lalbert and played 72 matches for Richmond. It hurt you when your career in the big-time finished didn't it?

CRAIG SMITH: When I finished up I was still fairly young. I'd picked up glandular and ross river fever and it limited me in being able to do the required training. I could front up on a Saturday and play but I couldn't get through three or four nights of training as I'd be cooked by the weekend. It didn't allow me to continue playing at that level. At the end of 1993, the club said they couldn't keep me on if I couldn't train which was fair enough.

BK: You didn't try to give yourself time and have a crack at another club?

CS: I could have tried to go to another club but I couldn't see myself doing it as I'm a pretty loyal person and it didn't sit right with me. I'd played in an under-19s flag at Richmond, all my mates were there and I'd been a senior player for a fair period of time. I chewed over it for a few months and that's when Lavington approached me.

BK: Tough decision?

CS: At that stage I was recently married, I'm from the country and the romantic side of going back to the country and starting a family was the lure. It was a toss of the coin because Chris Naish had put Wangaratta in contact with me as well.

BK: Why did you decide on Lavington?

CS: It was probably a combination of the facilities and, being in a bigger town, we thought there might be a few more opportunities.

BK: It didn't work out though as you had only one season as coach, with Lavington finishing with the wooden spoon.

CS: Lavi probably thought they didn't finish where they wanted but the thing was I thought we were starting to develop some really good kids like Paul Hallandale and Travis McLean. I thought there was a good nucleus of kids at the club.

BK: Did you leave or were you pushed?

CS: In the end Lavington wanted me to make a decision. At that stage there was a rumour they were looking at Chris Stuhldreier as the club didn't really have anyone who could kick a score. Lavi had been in touch with him previously and I was one player and a coach and they had the opportunity to get three or four players with a couple of the Sansons. I got that.

BK: You ended up crossing to Wodonga Raiders the following season.

CS: Peter Copley had helped me for a while at Lavington and was sort of my right hand man until he was offered the Raiders' job a few rounds into the season when Simon Meehan moved back to Melbourne for work. 'Copes' and I had stayed in touch, we formed a relationship and I ended up following him to the Raiders.

BK: You had five seasons with the Raiders and never missed the finals?

CS: I always felt that was a pretty good accomplishment considering we hadn't won a flag previously. We were competitive every year. I always saw Wodonga Raiders as a tradies club as we couldn't afford the money of others but we were able to work with the young blokes and find them work and things like that.

BK: You played in two grand finals for a win and loss. Take us back to 1997 against Albury.

CS: We were travelling fairly well going into the grand final and, when big Kenny Howe went down at the first bounce, I was one of many who probably thought we were a really good chance.

BK: It didn't work out that way

CS: Anthony Foubister went into the ruck and, being a spring-heeled jack, he just jumped over us. He threw something really different at us and we didn't have a Plan B. At the selection table we chose not to go with Robbie Panozzo as a back-up ruckman as we didn't think we needed one as we knew the way Kenny played. Robbie was mobile and might have helped us in that regard.

BK: There was unfinished business against Lavington in the 1998 grand final?

CS: We hit the GF with a full list, fully fit and still hurting from the year before. It wouldn't have mattered who we played as we weren't going to lose that one. In the end we had a really good mix of mature and young players. It was my first senior premiership and, with it being the club's first, it was pretty special for the supporters and everyone else who was involved.

BK: Your last season at Raiders was 1999 before you joined Osborne

CS: With 'Harro' (Darren Harris) leaving, there was a changing of the guard but I never actually got a phone call asking if there was anything I'd like to do around the club in regards to playing on, or helping out. I never got that phone call. Given the five years I'd been at the club with a young family, I was probably a bit disappointed. Not a senior player or a senior official called me asking if I would come back and do something. Don't get me wrong I had some great times at the club, but I was a little disappointed about that.

BK: Gary O'Connell from Osborne certainly gave you a phone call?

CS: I remember the first one was from his hospital bed. It was polite and everything but I probably wasn't that keen to be honest.

BK: He persisted though?

CS: He did. I wasn't in the head space for it but when Gary persisted I probably thought there was an opportunity perhaps to finish my career at a country club where you could just really enjoy it like you were 15 again. Kids were running around at half-time having a kick, the ladies would make a plate and it was just like I remembered it as a kid. I credit Osborne for bringing those things back to me because I got that chip off my shoulder from my league days. I speak still to Gary a couple of times a year. The O'Connells are a great family.

BK: So it hit you really hard you when you finished up at Richmond?

CS: I wasn't in full control when I got sick and I probably fell out of love with the game. I was fighting my own demons still at Lavington and I certainly enjoyed playing again more at Raiders. Osborne was a great place to finish.

BK: Stephen 'Bucket' Clarke played against you in the Ovens and Murray and recently described you as a "pretty boy". He wasn't originally sold on the idea of you coaching his home club.

CS: Understandably so, it was a pretty fierce rivalry between the Raiders and Albury. You have to get yourself over that. I made 'Clarkey' the captain just because of the way he trained and carried himself and you could see the players respond to him. He may have been a bit surprised but I didn't see it that way. I needed a local in my corner and he was fantastic. We used to go out to Osborne in a bus for training and I got to know him really well. If there was something we needed to do on a particular day, I could rely on him and his brother, Trevor, executing it for me.

BK: You were a bit shocked the first time you saw the Osborne ground weren't you?

CS: We drove out to see the ground and it was dead and rolled flat hard. I remember pulling up with Rachel and the kids and saying: 'I don't think Dad is going to be playing on this ground boys'. I wasn't sure my old body would hold up. They convinced me the ground wouldn't be like this in round one.

BK: How good was Adam Schneider for you? I remember him terrorising Holbrook in the 2001 grand final.

CS: We didn't have him a lot but when he played he was terrific. He played well in both grand final wins against Howlong and Holbrook. He never got many instructions from me. I learnt over the years that if a kid is talented don't give them too many instructions. I played a reasonable level of tennis as a kid and remember a tennis coach getting filthy with me because I was trying to hit with too much top-spin. I tried to change and it buggered my game for a year

BK: Could you see Schneider was AFL material as a 16-year-old?

CS: The Osborne boys used to ask me that a bit. He was quick in those days but he wasn't ridiculously quick. I thought he would be a 100 to 150-gamer but he got over 200 in the end. He had a super career.

BK: In 2000, Osborne went through the home and away series undefeated before stumbling against Howlong in the first final at Henty?

CS: It was wet after the heavens opened on the Friday which probably played into Howlong's hands. They manhandled us a bit I guess. The scores were level at full-time and after extra time so the game went to golden point. The ball came to me, I picked it up and went to turn and Jamie Marci laid a half token tackle on me. I stood up in the tackle and got the ball away but the umpire saw it differently and paid caught. Jamie was a long kick and kicked a point from 55 or 60 metres to win Howlong the game.

BK: It stung didn't it?

CS: I certainly didn't need to motivate the boys over the next two weeks. We went into the next game full of steam against Holbrook and comfortably beat Howlong in the grand final. It got a bit heated after we took control of the grand final with a few boys sent off but we kept our eyes on the prize and got the job done. We had a really even side that season.

BK: Osborne defeated a very strong Holbrook side in 2001?

CS: I remember they toweled us up in our Centenary game at Osborne that year. Holbrook had some good players follow Marc Duryea out from Albury and we knew we would have to play well to beat them. Our boys were really selfless that season playing out of their usual positions for the betterment of the side. Darren Howard and Anthony Armstrong played down back and Hayden Gleeson went to centre half-forward. My two years at Osborne were as enjoyable as anything I've done in my career.

BK: You had some characters out at Osborne didn't you?

CS: Anything they did they did properly whether it be on or off the ground.

BK: Those bus trips from Albury to Osborne must have been entertaining?

CS: We had a runner Barney Vogel who was really good value. He was great for the club. I remember we dropped him off one night in Lavington and there was a house for sale next door. We did a lap of the block and came back, the boys pulled the sign out and put it up on his front lawn. I remember him saying that not everyone in his family saw the funny side of it.

BK: Surprisingly, your last game of Ovens and Murray football was for Myrtleford wasn't it?

CS: I met Gus Rigoni when he was 19 or 20 and we've stayed good friends since then. I've holidayed at Myrtleford a lot over the years and there was a year when we were sitting having a coffee at The Myrtleford Caravan Park when Bill 'Fox' O'Donohue was running around at Easter looking for reserve grade players to fill in.

BK: So you had a kick?

CS: We played under other names and it was one of funniest days I've ever had. We told the coach we would only play in a forward pocket but we ended up playing in the middle virtually all game. After the game we sat around in the rooms having a beer talking to the young Myrtleford blokes. I don't think I've ever laughed so much as that day.

BK: And Richmond win this weekend?

CS: I hope so. Until this year I haven't missed a final for a few seasons.