As female leaders in the male-dominated emergency services field, Kerrie Hicks and Donna Wheatley have become used to plenty of people having opinions about them.
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They have learnt to deal with being the face of change at the top, and when to put on their "game face" or embrace emotion.
The pair were the guest speakers at this year's Women's Health Goulburn North East event for International Women's Day.
Wangaratta's Inspector Kerrie Hicks said she used to try to fit in with male police colleagues, but has now embraced being authentic, saying it is much better for communication and trust.
“As a detective we used to wear really masculine suits, tie your hair back - you never show any femininity. Whereas now I say that’s my point of difference, that’s actually my strength, that’s what I need to celebrate,” she said.
“There is a time and place for emotion, but we have to be really careful when we do that, otherwise we are not heard.”
She said being ambitious should not be an insult.
Even Victoria Police as an organisation was going through a shift in how it assessed confidence in its members.
“Being confident in yourself is knowing your stuff, but not being a chest-beating wanker about it,” Inspector Hicks said.
“These are skills that women possess really well.”
Metropolitan Fire Brigade's Commander Wheatley made the trip to Wangaratta to speak at yesterday's event, as one of the first two women told hold the rank in the organisation.
After 16 years in the MFB, people still ask her if she is a "real firefighter".
While she has dealt with her share of burning buildings, the burden of being a minority because of her gender has been tougher.
“I’ve never really felt scared, aside from the thought that if I muck this up, every woman has failed,” Commander Wheatley said.
Now she wants to help give other women a sense of entitlement.
“When I reflect on competition and collaboration, I see that men are taught to be competitive - that’s part of masculinity. It wasn’t taught to the women I had spoken to as much,” she said.
“We’ve got to talk to women and tell them that they’re entitled to put their elbow out as well … Have courage, lead from your heart, be unapologetic about who you are.”
WHGNE chief executive Susie Reid said women in the North East were "tipping the scales in favour of equal representation in leadership".
“In these male-dominated industries, Kerrie and Donna are the change we want to see in gender equality. They show us what leadership can look like,” she said.
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