DALLAS KOTZUR: I was 15 and Dave Hunter was coaching. I was at Yanco Ag College and used to travel back on weekends, so I never used to train with them.

BG: How do you think you performed?

DK: I got a few kicks from memory. I must have went OK because I remember a couple of weeks later on the Saturday I had NSW trials at Lavington Sportsground and couldn't get back to Walla until the second half. So they decided to start the match with 19 blokes and I rocked up and played the second half.

BG: You play two seasons with Walla and then head into town and join Wodonga as a 17-year-old in 1977. Why the Bulldogs?

DK: At the time North Albury, Albury and Wodonga were all keen to recruit me. I wanted to play rover. I looked at North Albury and Albury's list and they both had two good rovers on each side. So I decided to join Wodonga because that was where I thought I would get more of an opportunity to play rover.

BG: Did you make the right decision?

DK: I thought I did because John Perry was coaching after finishing his career at Richmond and North Melbourne. Perry was a fitness fanatic and we were all super fit. Then Perry got cleaned up in the first round when he copped a knee in the back from Rod Page and ended his footy career. Frank Hanrahan took over as coach and we didn't go as well as expected.

BG: I think you spent two seasons with Wodonga?

DK: Yeah, I decided to join North Albury for reasons that I don't really want to get into. But I become good mates with Des Richardson, Jack O'Halloran and Peter Sharp. We had a terrific side and ended up getting beat in the preliminary final by less than a goal. I missed the prelim with injury. It was one of the best sides I ever played in.

BG: You head to North Albury the following season and play under John Smith in 1979?

DK: Yeah North Albury were keen to recruit me so I headed to Bunton Park. We finished down the ladder in my first year but the second year we won the flag.

BG: You kick four and feature in the best. What are your memories of the grand final victory?

DK: That year was an unbelievable because I think we only won three matches in the first round. We had to beat Wang Rovers at their ground half-way during the second round just to stay in touch of finals. I think Brian Parkes kicked 10 and we won easily. We didn't lose another match for the season. To win the flag from fifth spot was an unbelievable feeling and one of the fondest memories of my career.

BG: The following season in 1981 you head out to Culcairn and coach the Lions as a 21-year-old?

DK: Yeah, it was Culcairn's first season in the Tallangatta league after crossing from the Farrer league.

BG: Being the new kids on the block, I'm guessing the other clubs didn't exactly lay out the welcome mat for you?

DK: Spot on, it was a tough initiation. Being a NSW side playing in a Victorian competition, we weren't too popular. It's probably a bit like Thurgoona at the moment.

BG: Did Culcairn enjoy any early success in the TDFL?

DK: We made finals in my first year as coach and the grand final against Mitta the following year?

IN OTHER NEWS

BG: Back in that era, Mitta were renowned for making life tough for the opposition's star players. I'm guessing you would have had a target on your back?

DK: Yeah, I got king hit in the second semi-final and ended up with three stitches in my lip.

BG: Did you square up with the culprit?

DK: Not on the day but we played each other in the grand final. There ended up being an all-in-brawl between both sides in front of the Culcairn crowd in the forward pocket. I remember it spilled over into the crowd. It was pretty full on. But at the end of the day, Mitta were too good and that's how it won grand finals.

BG: After three years as coach of Culcairn and another as a player, you join Albury in 1985. You win a flag in your first year at the Sportsground against Lavington?

DK: Yeah I wanted to have another crack at playing at the higher level. Albury won the wooden spoon the previous year. We should have never won the flag because Lavington had such a star-studded side at the time. Russell Campbell was coach of Albury. I believe Campbell out-coached Lavington that day and I rate him tactically, as one of the best coaches I have played under.

BG: The following year, you are on the move again head to Henty from 1986-88.

DK: I was assistant coach for the first year and coached for two years after that.

BG: Did you have much success at Henty?

DK: 1986 was a huge year for the club because they ended up winning all three grades of football.

BG: Was 1986 the year Jindera firebrand Roy Fulford cleaned you up in the final round?

DK: I knew you would ask about that but it's true. We were going to play Jindera in the finals so the coach told me to have a quiet game and not kick too many goals. I remember I was running towards goal and Fully was running at me. I decided to handball over his head but the problem was Fully decided he would keep running and elbow me in the nose. He split my nose and gave me a couple of black eyes. I remonstrated with him and ended up copping another one on the beak. I remember I was at the Azzi medal count the following day and I was almost unrecognisable with all the bruising and swelling. I finished runner-up and had to do a speech which wasn't ideal at the time.

BG: You head back to Culcairn in 1989 and play in the Lions' first flag in the TDFL in 1990 under Neville Hensel?

DK: It was a big day for the club because it had all four grades playing and won every grade except for the reserves. The senior side was basically all locals and David "Boogie" Lebretton took a few hangers late to win the match for us.

BG: You played against Peter Copley in 1986 and then in 1993 play alongside him in a flag at Culcairn?

DK: Yeah, it's funny how things work out. He coached me to a flag in 1993 and then coaches Jayden to a flag at Thurgoona in 2016.

BG: You also had a stint at Jindera.

DK: I was pretty good mates with Ross Hillary and he was coaching there. He ended up quitting half-way through the season and I ended up coaching for the remainder of the season.

BG: How many games did you end up playing?

DK: I played about 210 at Culcairn and more than 400 all-up.

BG: How old were you when you retired?

DK: I was 42.

BG: You ended up playing for seven clubs. Do you know anyone who has played at more?

DK: I won't lie, I don't. But I'm sure somebody I know has.

BG: Who do you consider your home club?

DK: Culcairn

BG: What do you consider the highlight?

DK: Apart from the grand finals, playing inter-league. I used to get a huge thrill playing alongside the blokes you usually played against and getting to know them better and the footy was of a high standard. We were very successful but I realise the passion for inter-league is not the same these days.

BG: How many B&Fs did you win?

DK: None. I finished runner-up nine times, seven at club level and twice in the league.

BG: How many flags?

DK: Six

BG: You were tagged most of your career, how did you deal with that?

DK: I didn't mind getting tagged, it was just when blokes tried to rough you up off the ball that was not in the spirit of the game.

BG: Most annoying tagger?

DK: I don't know about most annoying but I always used to have a run in with Mark McSweeney when he was at Mitta and Tallangatta. Every time we played I just knew something would end up happening. We never saw eye to eye on the footy field but we are good mates now.

BG: Ever been reported?

DK: I was once for a quarter. I was at Culcairn and it was against Henty and a bit of a scuffle broke out. The bloke I was playing on runs over and drops the knees into one of my teammates. When he came back I said to him "What a weak act, anyone can do that." He said "What are you going to do about it you old fossil?" So I whacked him. The umpire was standing about one metre away and heard the crack but didn't see anything. He said "you are both reported." Anyway about a quarter later he says "I've decided to drop the report." So that was the closest I've been to getting reported.

BG: Jayden you make your senior debut as a 14-year-old for Culcairn in 2000 under Ray Mack. What are your memories of that day?

JK: I remember dad had a terrible time trying to convince mum (Jenny) that I should be playing senior footy. Ray had been asking for weeks and mum wouldn't let me. I think in the end dad just told Ray to pick me so I ended up playing. It's fair to say mum was a bit of a hornet when she found out.

BG: Did you end up playing fourths, thirds and seniors that day?

JK: Yeah, it was against Walla. The fourths and thirds were short so I ended up playing three matches. I slept well that night.

BG: The following year in 2001 your old man comes out of retirement to play alongside you. What are the memories of that day?

JK: I don't think dad was happy with some of the attention I was receiving from the opposition so he thought it was a good idea to start playing again and look after me.

BG: I didn't know Dallas rated himself as an enforcer. Did he have to pull anyone into line?

JK: Yeah there was one day against Jindera and I was getting tagged by Ray Estrada. Dad was sitting on the bench and didn't like what he was seeing. So dad come onto the ground and had a word or two with Estrada and there was a bit of a brawl just before half-time.

BG: Was it a highlight to play alongside your son as a 42-year-old?

DK: It was but I'm the first to admit I did feel old. I remember the first time playing alongside Jayden and I had the ball and was under pressure and I hear this "dad, dad, dad." I didn't realise at the time but it was Jayden calling for the ball. I've been called a lot of names on the footy field but that was the first time I was called 'dad' and it was at that moment I realised I needed to retire for good.

BG: You head into Albury in 2002? How old were you when you made your O&M debut?

JK: I was 16 and Paul Spargo was coaching.

BG: Did you always intend to play for Albury?

JK: I had been talking to Tim Sanson for about two years about going to Lavington because Sanson used to coach the school footy side as well. Spargo was also in my ear and would call me every couple of weeks about going to Albury. So I decided to train with both clubs and see where I felt most comfortable. Lavington won the flag the previous year and Albury finished on the bottom. Anyway I got a better vibe at the Sportsground and Spargs seemed a lot keener at the time. I thought I would get more opportunities at Albury as well.

BG: I'm guessing Sanson would have hated your decision?

JK: When I rang him to tell him I was going to Albury he said 'I'm going to hit you first game.' It's funny looking back because we played Lavington first round that year under lights at Lavington. I remember kicking the first goal of the match. We ended up beating Lavington that night, so I was relieved that I made the right decision.

BG: Albury finish on top of the ladder but suffer a straight sets finals exit?

JK: Yeah, Nick Carroll got sent off against Wang Rovers and we were a man short. The following week Luke Kohlhagen cleaned up Mark Bush from North Albury and got sent off as well.

BG: You played Bushrangers for 2003 and 2004? Who were some of the guns in the side at the time?

JK: Brett Deledio, Ryley Dunn, Kane Tenace and Dave Mundy were some of the biggest names to get drafted.

BG: Did many AFL clubs show interest in you?

JK: I was captain of the Bushrangers in my second year but I got stress fractures and hardly played. The Swans showed the most interest.

BG: There was no doubt at that time your dream was to play AFL?

JK: Absolutely.

BG: How did you feel once you knew your dream was shattered?

JK: I went back to Albury in 2005 and 2006 but once I knew I missed out on being drafted, I lost a bit of faith and interest in football. I put so much work in the three or four years leading up to 2004 and then to play only three matches and miss out on the draft was hard to take at the time. I stopped putting the work in after that and my opportunity slipped away pretty quick.

BG: I think you considered quitting footy around that time. Were you mentally burnt out after playing so much footy from a young age?

JK: I think playing senior footy at such a young age took did take a toll alongside the pressure of wanting to be an AFL player. Back then the scouts were picking athletes more than footballers so I was always going to be up against it with my lack of height.

BG: You head out to Culcairn in 2007 and play in the Lions most recent flag. Must have meant a bit to you at the time?

JK: I was at Albury and wasn't real fit, so I wasn't getting a kick and then I was on the bench a lot because of poor form. My partner at the time and now my wife, Katie, moved to Geelong and my Pop (Harry Gardiner) passed away. So I had a fair bit going on. So I just decided to take a step back and head out to Culcairn and play with my a lot of my mates.

BG: So you don't regret the decision?

JK: Not at all, but it just shows how quickly time goes. When we won it in 2007 it was 14 years between flags. Now it's 12 years later and the Lions haven't won another one. Hopefully this is the year.

BG: Head back to Albury the following season in 2008 and play in the flag in 2009?

JK: To win a flag in the O&M under Spargo meant a helluva lot to me. We had a cracking side and went through undefeated. We had the reunion a couple of weeks ago and it was good catching up with all the boys.

BG: You don't make many mistakes on the field but you made a big one off it on the trip away in 2008. You broke the golden rule and didn't go in the group quaddie and missed out big time?

JK: Ha ha, don't remind me. Yeah the boys got the quaddie on Derby Day and won $35,000. Tom Yates, Josh Hillary and myself decided not to go in because we thought they knew nothing about punting. How wrong were we? They put in $50 each and got back $3500 each. The worst part was I ended up doing my arse trying to chase and win some money myself.

BG: You coach Ganmain for three years from 2013-15 and win the league medal?

JK: One of my good mates Hayden Milne is involved with Ganmain and they were looking for a coach at the time. I knew the Carroll boys as well and knew it was a successful club. So I didn't think I would get many better clubs to start my coaching career.

BG: You join Thurgoona in 2016 and win a flag in your first season under Peter Copley?

JK: Copes gave me a fair bit of leeway that season. I never knew what he was going to do. He would tell you what your role would be on a Thursday night and then by Saturday morning it was different. There is no doubt he is the quirkiest coach that I ever had. But he knew how to get the best out of each individual.

BG: You did your ankle badly the following season, did you think that could be it?

JK: I came close to retiring. I won a flag the previous year which was special because it was Thurgoona's first since joining the league.

BG: What changed your mind?

JK: The doctor told me I probably wouldn't recover fully and I would never play again. That changed my mindset. I didn't want to be told I can't play again - I want to choose. So that was a bit of motivation.

BG: How do you enjoy the challenge of coaching?

JK: I love coaching. I wouldn't coach by myself again but I really enjoyed being a co-coach alongside Jamarl O'Sullivan.

BG: Can you see yourself playing as long as your old man?

JK: Not a chance. I'm 33 and will either retire at the end of this year or next.

BG: I'm still in disbelief that your old man didn't win a B&F. How many have you got?

JK: I've had a bit more luck than dad. I've got three club B&Fs and 1 runner-up as well as two league B&Fs and two runners-up.

BG: Dallas, who do you think has had the better career to date?

DK: I think Jayden from an individual perspective but I played in 11 grand finals and won six, so I'll take that any day.

BG: I rate Jayden as one of the most skillful players I have seen. Who has got the better skills?

DK: Left footers always have the better skills, so me. I was also a lot quicker.

BG: Is your skill natural or something you have had to work hard on?

DK: Growing up I never had a football out of my hands. From five years upwards I used to go out the back yard and kick to myself for hours on end. You do get blessed with some natural talent but you still have to put the work in.

BG: No doubt you would have had Jayden using both sides of his body from a young age?

DK: It was more Jenny than me. I was often busy on the farm so Jenny taught Jayden how to kick on his left.

BG: Jayden, apart from the flags, what do you consider your career highlight.

JK: Playing alongside the old man is right up there. I remember we had a competition one day who would kick the most goals. I was spewing when dad kicked five and I ended up with four.